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Clementia
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  • Gender  Female 
    Notes 
    • Regarding the identity of Clemence, mother of Joan of England, wife of
      Llywelyn ap Iorwerth, Prince of North Wales, the following information
      might be helpful.

      The actual entry in the Tewksbury annals which pertains to Joan's
      mother, "Queen" Clemence, reads as follows:

      Year: A.D. 1236

      Obiit domina Johanna domina Walliae, uxor Lewelini filia regis
      Johannis et regina Clemencie, iii. kal. Aprilis."

      [Died lady Joan lady of Wales, wife of Llywelyn, daughter of King John
      and Queen Clemence, 3 Kal. April."

      Reference: Henry Richard Luard, Annales Monastici, 1 (1864): 101.

      In this case, the monk was evidently indulging in medieval legalism.
      Before her death, Joan had been legitimized by the Pope. On the
      basis of that legitimization, the Tewksbury monk evidently chose to
      elevate Joan's mother to the status of Queen, as if Joan's mother had
      been King John's wife. In point of fact, King John and Joan's mother,
      Clemence, were never married. By referring to Joan's mother as
      "Queen" Clemence, the monk who recorded Joan's death was showing his
      extreme respect for Joan, not attempting to alter the facts.

      The item from the Patent Rolls cited by Robert Battle below involving
      Joan's daughter, Susanna, was located by me some years ago.
      Basically, the document states that King Henry III is entrusting the
      care of his niece, Susanna (daughter of Llywelyn and Joan), to the
      care of Nicholas de Verdun and Clemence, his wife.

      On the surface, there would be nothing to suggest any connection
      between Susanna of Wales and Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun.
      However, Susanna was almost certainly being held in England as a
      hostage as a guarantee for good behavior on the part of her father,
      Llywelyn. Her brother, David, for instance, was being held hostage in
      England at the time of the Magna Carta.

      My experience with foreign hostages has been that they were often
      placed with their English relatives, if any were available. To verify
      that, one has only to consult the long list of Scottish hostages in
      this period, who I discovered were repeatedly placed with their
      English kinsmen. Being a hostage in this period basically meant the
      person was under house arrest. Under such circumstances, it is easy
      to understand why such persons were placed with their own relations.

      The fact that Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun, is mentioned at
      all catches the eye. Under normal circumstances, the wife would not
      be named. The fact that she was so named suggests she had some
      interest in Susanna. Given the fact we know that Susanna's
      grandmother was named Clemence, it becomes readily apparent that
      Clemence, wife of Nicholas de Verdun, was Susanna's own grandmother.
      That this is true is underscored by the fact that when the king later
      granted Susanna's care to another individual, no mention was made of
      the other man's wife. Even more important, the name Clemence is
      extremely rare among English noble women of this period. The fact
      that anyone named Clemence would be associated with Susanna is
      important.

      As for the identity of Clemence de Verdun, Paget shows that she was
      the daughter of Roger de Dauntsey, of Wiltshire. It is interesting
      that Clemence would hail from Wiltshire. Over the years, I've
      noticed that King John had a strong attachment to Wiltshire, it being
      the home of his most trusted allies, the Longespee, Marshal, and
      Basset families and Geoffrey Fitz Peter, Earl of Essex. Surely, given
      that his strongest supporters were all Wiltshire people suggests that
      King John spent much time there.

      Back in 1992, I shared my findings on Clemence de Dauntsey with Gary
      Boyd Roberts, who in turn placed her name as Joan's mother in his
      book, Royal Descents of 500 Immigrants, published in 1993. On page
      305, he notes that I was then planning an article on Princess Joan and
      her mother, Clemence. Due to circumstances beyond my control, the
      article was never published as scheduled. However, I do plan to
      include a discussion of Clemence de Dauntsey in my forthcoming book,
      Plantagenet Ancestry, 3rd edition. For those interested in obtaining
      a copy of the book, please contact me privately at my e-mail address
      below.

      In this case, I think the evidence is suggestive but not conclusive
      that Clemence de Dauntsey was Princess Joan's mother. Perhaps with a
      little prodding of the records, the desired conclusive evidence of Joan's parentage will yet be
      located.

      Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah
      E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com
    Person ID  I2330  Royal Family of Europe
    Last Modified  10 Jan 2003 

    Family  ENGLAND John "Lackland" King Of,   b. 24 Dec 1166, Kings Manor House, Oxford, Oxfordshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 19 Oct 1216, , Newark, Nottinghamshire, England Find all individuals with events at this location 
    Children 
    >1. ENGLAND Joan Princess Of,   b. 1188, Of, London, Middlesex, England Find all individuals with events at this location,   d. 3 Apr 1236, Aberconwy, Arllechwedd Isaf, Caernarvonshire, Wales Find all individuals with events at this location
    Family ID  F658  Group Sheet



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